<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Approaching Worship and Respect</title>
	<atom:link href="http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/</link>
	<description>Thoughts from Plymouth Brethren Blogger Rey Reynoso</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:21:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: The Bible Archive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Christian Carnival: Happy New Year!</title>
		<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-2339</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bible Archive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Christian Carnival: Happy New Year!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblearchive.com/blog/?p=1556#comment-2339</guid>
		<description>[...] Reynoso presents Approaching Worship and Respect posted at The Bible Archive, saying &quot;I&#8217;m just blegging for books on (1) worship, (2) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reynoso presents Approaching Worship and Respect posted at The Bible Archive, saying &quot;I&#8217;m just blegging for books on (1) worship, (2) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblearchive.com/blog/?p=1556#comment-1854</guid>
		<description>Missouri Synod Lutherans approach the Divine Service as being that Heaven comes to earth. God does not need our worship and praise and service. We do need His service, presence, and His gifts of forgiveness, life, and salvation. Christ comes to us bodily in Absolution, the Word read, in the sermon preached by the pastor ( Viva vox Jesu ) and the Sacrament of Holy Communion where we eat His body and drink His blood for the forgiveness of sins when we receive the bread and wine.

A good book on the Divine Service of Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is Heaven of Earth, The gifts of Christ in the Divine Service by Dr. Arthur A. Just Jr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Missouri Synod Lutherans approach the Divine Service as being that Heaven comes to earth. God does not need our worship and praise and service. We do need His service, presence, and His gifts of forgiveness, life, and salvation. Christ comes to us bodily in Absolution, the Word read, in the sermon preached by the pastor ( Viva vox Jesu ) and the Sacrament of Holy Communion where we eat His body and drink His blood for the forgiveness of sins when we receive the bread and wine.</p>
<p>A good book on the Divine Service of Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is Heaven of Earth, The gifts of Christ in the Divine Service by Dr. Arthur A. Just Jr.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil James</title>
		<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-1853</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblearchive.com/blog/?p=1556#comment-1853</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Biblical_Worship.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;something&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;d recommend and that is available online: Its brief, but I think it is thought provoking.

We&#039;re right in the middle of Christmas, and today puts me with my  family in a few hours. There are gifts to buy, and I&#039;m not ready. I  wanted to write something … different than this, but I can&#039;t at the  moment. So here are a couple of brief thoughts:

One of the most significant things that separate and distinguish  Evangelicals- excluding Lutherans- from the catholic branches is a  differing understanding of why we gather on the Lord&#039;s Day.

Evangelicals gather to &#039;Worship&#039;, and their meaning is congruent with  the etymology of the English word &#039;worship.&#039; They meet to express the  worthiness of God. They meet to praise him.

From this perspective veneration, worship, etc &lt;em&gt;are different points along a continuum of honor.
&lt;/em&gt;
If idolatry is conceived of in terms of worship, the distinction  between &#039;giving honor where honor is due&#039; and&#039; idolatry&#039; is finally a  matter of subjectively feeling or objectively expressing &#039;too much&#039;  affection/praise/honor for a person, place, thing or idea.

I know there is truth in this concern. Expressing an inordinate degree  of affection/praise/honor is certainly tied to idolatry and the false  worship that attends it. The distinction between &lt;em&gt;dulia&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;latria&lt;/em&gt; were meant to recognize this.

I understand your concern about this being an intellectual distinction  that hasn&#039;t any real impact on the life we live. But, I think the  disconnect is other than what you might think. Human faculties are  limited. The potential emotions, sensations, and acts can be counted.  Lewis talks about this in his essay on &lt;em&gt;Transpostion&lt;/em&gt;.

The emotions are far more complicated and numerous than the sensations  that accompany them. Sensations have to double, triple or quadruple up  in tier meaning. The wonderful sensation that we might experience on  meeting &#039;that girl&#039; might be objectively identical to the feeling one  has upon learning that a loved one has died- only its not.

Judging what is &#039;really&#039; going on by measuring brain waves or the  flutter of the diaphragm might be entirely misleading. Likewise,  judging whether a soldier has confused his wife for God- sliding from  lawful affection to illicit latria- might be a pointless exercise-  especially if you were watching the reunion after a long deployment.

It is &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; attempt to discern/judge the distinction (that  might be very real) that takes us out of the real world- not the  distinction itself.

But here is my real point- the catholic branches (including Lutherans)  don&#039;t understand what we are doing on the Lord&#039;s Day as being &lt;em&gt;primarily&lt;/em&gt; about what Evangelicals mean by &#039;worship.&#039; We aren&#039;t meeting to simply  honor or praise God. That can and ought to be done anywhere and can be  done in solitude.

We are doing something more. We are meeting for something that includes but goes beyond &#039;worship.&#039;

The language we use to refer to why we gather reflects this. Lutherans  have Divine Services. Orthodox, Catholics and Anglicans meet for the  sacrifice of the Eucharist which is the culmination of the Liturgy  (work).

As you know better than I, this is in keeping with the Hebrew and Greek  that is routinely translated &#039;Worship.&#039; While occasionally meaning  &#039;praise&#039;, the original languages more often than not refer to Service,  Sacrifice or cultic ritual.

Like Zaccheus, we assemble where we know our Lord will pass by. We have  faith that Word and Sacrament are effectual because of his promise. The  movement begins with God, but returns to him. God serves us (through  Jesus) and we, as men and women, return service to him (in Jesus). This  meeting of God and man is the intentional point of our assembly.

Anyway, for us &#039;worship&#039; isn&#039;t a vague extreme on the emotional scale of honor. Or rather that &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; what &#039;worship&#039; is about, but that&#039;s not primarily why we gather on Sunday. For catholics, &lt;em&gt;&#039;Worship&#039;  is the particular God ordained act (ritual) by which God gives himself  to man and man offers up to God that which God had always hoped for in  man- which is to say that &#039;worship&#039; is about receiving Christ from God  and offering Christ to God.

&lt;/em&gt; It is about the &lt;em&gt;communion&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;memorial&lt;/em&gt; of the Eucharist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Biblical_Worship.htm" rel="nofollow">something</a> I&#8217;d recommend and that is available online: Its brief, but I think it is thought provoking.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re right in the middle of Christmas, and today puts me with my  family in a few hours. There are gifts to buy, and I&#8217;m not ready. I  wanted to write something … different than this, but I can&#8217;t at the  moment. So here are a couple of brief thoughts:</p>
<p>One of the most significant things that separate and distinguish  Evangelicals- excluding Lutherans- from the catholic branches is a  differing understanding of why we gather on the Lord&#8217;s Day.</p>
<p>Evangelicals gather to &#8216;Worship&#8217;, and their meaning is congruent with  the etymology of the English word &#8216;worship.&#8217; They meet to express the  worthiness of God. They meet to praise him.</p>
<p>From this perspective veneration, worship, etc <em>are different points along a continuum of honor.<br />
</em><br />
If idolatry is conceived of in terms of worship, the distinction  between &#8216;giving honor where honor is due&#8217; and&#8217; idolatry&#8217; is finally a  matter of subjectively feeling or objectively expressing &#8216;too much&#8217;  affection/praise/honor for a person, place, thing or idea.</p>
<p>I know there is truth in this concern. Expressing an inordinate degree  of affection/praise/honor is certainly tied to idolatry and the false  worship that attends it. The distinction between <em>dulia</em> and <em>latria</em> were meant to recognize this.</p>
<p>I understand your concern about this being an intellectual distinction  that hasn&#8217;t any real impact on the life we live. But, I think the  disconnect is other than what you might think. Human faculties are  limited. The potential emotions, sensations, and acts can be counted.  Lewis talks about this in his essay on <em>Transpostion</em>.</p>
<p>The emotions are far more complicated and numerous than the sensations  that accompany them. Sensations have to double, triple or quadruple up  in tier meaning. The wonderful sensation that we might experience on  meeting &#8216;that girl&#8217; might be objectively identical to the feeling one  has upon learning that a loved one has died- only its not.</p>
<p>Judging what is &#8216;really&#8217; going on by measuring brain waves or the  flutter of the diaphragm might be entirely misleading. Likewise,  judging whether a soldier has confused his wife for God- sliding from  lawful affection to illicit latria- might be a pointless exercise-  especially if you were watching the reunion after a long deployment.</p>
<p>It is <em>this</em> attempt to discern/judge the distinction (that  might be very real) that takes us out of the real world- not the  distinction itself.</p>
<p>But here is my real point- the catholic branches (including Lutherans)  don&#8217;t understand what we are doing on the Lord&#8217;s Day as being <em>primarily</em> about what Evangelicals mean by &#8216;worship.&#8217; We aren&#8217;t meeting to simply  honor or praise God. That can and ought to be done anywhere and can be  done in solitude.</p>
<p>We are doing something more. We are meeting for something that includes but goes beyond &#8216;worship.&#8217;</p>
<p>The language we use to refer to why we gather reflects this. Lutherans  have Divine Services. Orthodox, Catholics and Anglicans meet for the  sacrifice of the Eucharist which is the culmination of the Liturgy  (work).</p>
<p>As you know better than I, this is in keeping with the Hebrew and Greek  that is routinely translated &#8216;Worship.&#8217; While occasionally meaning  &#8216;praise&#8217;, the original languages more often than not refer to Service,  Sacrifice or cultic ritual.</p>
<p>Like Zaccheus, we assemble where we know our Lord will pass by. We have  faith that Word and Sacrament are effectual because of his promise. The  movement begins with God, but returns to him. God serves us (through  Jesus) and we, as men and women, return service to him (in Jesus). This  meeting of God and man is the intentional point of our assembly.</p>
<p>Anyway, for us &#8216;worship&#8217; isn&#8217;t a vague extreme on the emotional scale of honor. Or rather that <em>is</em> what &#8216;worship&#8217; is about, but that&#8217;s not primarily why we gather on Sunday. For catholics, <em>&#8216;Worship&#8217;  is the particular God ordained act (ritual) by which God gives himself  to man and man offers up to God that which God had always hoped for in  man- which is to say that &#8216;worship&#8217; is about receiving Christ from God  and offering Christ to God.</p>
<p></em> It is about the <em>communion</em> and <em>memorial</em> of the Eucharist.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rey Reynoso</title>
		<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-1798</link>
		<dc:creator>Rey Reynoso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblearchive.com/blog/?p=1556#comment-1798</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the recommendation, Jeremy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recommendation, Jeremy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rey</title>
		<link>http://biblearchive.com/blog/2009/worship/approaching-worship-and-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-1797</link>
		<dc:creator>rey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblearchive.com/blog/?p=1556#comment-1797</guid>
		<description>I copied this comment from Facebook because I want to be able to store the titles for posterity.(ReyReynoso)

have three, what I consider really good books on worship. one is &quot;Worship: The Christian&#039;s Highest Occupation&quot; by A.P. Gibbs (available via GWH bookstore) and a couple of others. One is &quot;Real Worship&quot; by Warren Weirsbe and there is a similarly titled book by Tony Beckett (used to be a teacher for a short time on Back to the Bible). All three ... See Moregive a good overview and definition of worship. I can probably give you the exact title from Tony Beckett&#039;s book after I get to work tomorrow if you want to pursue it. (Jeff W.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I copied this comment from Facebook because I want to be able to store the titles for posterity.(ReyReynoso)</p>
<p>have three, what I consider really good books on worship. one is &#8220;Worship: The Christian&#8217;s Highest Occupation&#8221; by A.P. Gibbs (available via GWH bookstore) and a couple of others. One is &#8220;Real Worship&#8221; by Warren Weirsbe and there is a similarly titled book by Tony Beckett (used to be a teacher for a short time on Back to the Bible). All three &#8230; See Moregive a good overview and definition of worship. I can probably give you the exact title from Tony Beckett&#8217;s book after I get to work tomorrow if you want to pursue it. (Jeff W.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

