Something else I was just thinking, this time about election and predestination. A common charge against Arminianism that I?ve heard is that basing God?s election on Man?s decision in time makes salvation dependant on Man. Now, I actually agree with that, but I was just thinking how the same charge can be leveled at (some) in the Calvinist camp.
Now, some say that God chooses those who are to be saved and leaves the rest in their position to receive their due reward. Thing is that has God looking down the corridors of time and picking people that are to be saved. It?s still man-centered in that the people exist independently of God and he chooses which ones to save. Kind of like me going into a room and saying ?those marbles there, they are mine? but the marbles are there. They exist independently of me.
Of course, there?s yet another position that can have God saying ?I will make this a vessel of mercy? and ?I will make this a vessel of wrath? which would allow God choosing to do what He wants to do by orchestrating every detail down to the minutiae of sin in a life. Some folk would see this as heretical, others as hyper-Calvinist but it is consistent in that it allows the Gospel to be completely God centered. This would be me making the marbles and saying which ones are mine before I make them.
Then there?s another group that says God chooses to make certain individuals before the foundation of the world, forming them to be vessels of honor and the others he allows makes but allows them to set themselves up for perdition. This still keeps the Gospel as God-centered (because it makes God involved in the details of certain individuals) but it leaves the condemnation element independent of God (they condemn themselves). Now this allows God to expose the rest of the world to the gospel, ensuring a deeper condemnation for the hearers of the message and maintaining his righteousness. This would be making certain marbles and allowing marbles to grow around them and me knowing which marbles are mine.
Thing is, that winds up having a certain group independent of God?or does it? Arminianism is man-centered. Some common Calvinist positions are man-centered. Other common Calvinist positions are semi-man-centered. And the hyper-Calvinist position is completely God-Centered…but doesn’t sound very kosher up against Scripture. I don?t know?more paint fumes, and me losing my marbles.